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Wireless USB mice, which work on 98se?
Showing all messages in thread #1239050881
Windows 98 Annoyances Discussion Forum
The following are all of the messages in this thread (6 in all), shown in chronological order. Click any message subject to view that message by itself or to view the thread hierarchy.
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Wireless USB mice, which work on 98se?
Monday, April 6, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Posted by Louis
(39 messages posted)
Which of the wireless USB mice have you found to work with Win98se? The newer mice
are USB 2 and most seem to say that they will only work on 2K-Vista. I assume it's
due to the software they use to control the extra buttons or the side to side scroll
or zoom capabilities - which I do not need. eBay should have plenty of older mice
available should I need to look for such. Just want to know which ones will work
on 98se as a 3 button mouse before I buy one. Is anyone using the Logitech V220?
[Reply or follow-up to this message]
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re: Wireless USB mice which work on 98se?
Monday, April 6, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Posted by gewg_
(4444 messages posted)
Louis wrote:
|[...]The newer mice are USB 2
|
All implementations of USB2 *should* be backwards-compatible With USB1.
|and most seem to say that they will only work on 2K-Vista.
|
aka "The NT Kernel".
Just because all the variants of M$'s OS have "Windows" in their names
does NOT mean they are similar under the hood.
There are several M$ OS kernels--and those are NOT compatible on many levels.
cache of
citemd.com/cms/?q=node/65&query=m/mi/microsoft_windows.html#Current%20versions%20of%20Windows
|I assume it's due to the software they use
|
Yes, but not for the reasons you think.
The software you are referring to is called a "device driver".
**What is a device driver?**
http://www.karlsforums.com/faq/faq_devicedriver.htm
A device driver has to be written for a specific OS kernel.
...and even some software ostensibly written for an NT-kernel OS (e.g. Win2000/XP)
won't work with another NT-kernel OS (e.g. Vista--which happens a lot).
|to control the extra buttons or the side to side scroll or zoom capabilities
|- which I do not need.
|
*That* is NOT the limiting factor. You extrapolated beyond your knowledge base.
See "NT Kernel" (above).
When buying hardware to work with a 10-year-old M$ OS,
look for **your** OS in the Supported OSes list on the packaging / spec sheet.
Many (inferior/lazy) manufacturers don't bother to suppport Win9x (nor Linux).
JUST AVOID THOSE VENDORS.
Only AFTER you see he supports *you* (and your OS of choice)
do you hand over your money to a vendor.
[Reply or follow-up to this message]
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re: Wireless USB mice which work on 98se?
Monday, April 6, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Posted by Louis
(39 messages posted)
Thanks for the reply. The "reasons" I had in mind were the driver. I should have
been more exact and called the "software" in view the "driver". The newer drivers
will have the newest OS's in mind, that is where I figured the software will either
not load or simply would not work. "Might" the old USB support on Win98se allow me
to use a newer wireless USB mouse, just not with every function enabled is the question?
I've learned the Win95 user ignores the lack of support on hardware or software and
simply tries anyway. I have plenty of software and hardware that did not list Win95
as supported but it all works on my Win95 PC. But the question still remains, is
anyone successfully using a wireless USB mouse (a newer or older one) on their Win98
PC? And what drivers did you need to load, Win98se generic or something like the
IntelliPoint 5.30.606.0 driver?
On Monday, April 6, 2009 at 4:44 pm, gewg_ wrote:
>Louis wrote:
>|[...]The newer mice are USB 2
>|
>All implementations of USB2 *should* be backwards-compatible With USB1.
>
>|and most seem to say that they will only work on 2K-Vista.
>|
>aka "The NT Kernel".
>Just because all the variants of M$'s OS have "Windows" in their names
>does NOT mean they are similar under the hood.
>There are several M$ OS kernels--and those are NOT compatible on many levels.
>href="http://google.com/search?q=cache:P1Jw_X-ZhGwJ:citemd.com/cms/?q=node/65%26query=m/mi/microsoft_windows.html+Windows-CE-*-embedded-*+License+NT.Kernel.Based+text+terms+*-*-*-*-several-generations-*-*+DOS.based+no.DOS.heritage&strip=1#Current%20versions%20of%20Windows">
>cache of
>citemd.com/cms/?q=node/65&query=m/mi/microsoft_windows.html#Current%20versions%20of%20Windows
>
>|I assume it's due to the software they use
>|
>Yes, but not for the reasons you think.
>
>The software you are referring to is called a "device driver".
>**What is a device driver?**
>http://www.karlsforums.com/faq/faq_devicedriver.htm
>
>A device driver has to be written for a specific OS kernel.
>...and even some software ostensibly written for an NT-kernel OS (e.g. Win2000/XP)
>won't work with another NT-kernel OS (e.g. Vista--which happens a lot).
>
>|to control the extra buttons or the side to side scroll or zoom capabilities
>|- which I do not need.
>|
>*That* is NOT the limiting factor. You extrapolated beyond your knowledge base.
>See "NT Kernel" (above).
>
>When buying hardware to work with a 10-year-old M$ OS,
>look for **your** OS in the Supported OSes list on the packaging / spec sheet.
>Many (inferior/lazy) manufacturers don't bother to suppport Win9x (nor Linux).
>JUST AVOID THOSE VENDORS.
>Only AFTER you see he supports *you* (and your OS of choice)
>do you hand over your money to a vendor.
[Reply or follow-up to this message]
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re: Wireless USB mice which work on 98se?
Tuesday, April 7, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Posted by gewg_
(4444 messages posted)
Louis wrote:
|[...]The newer drivers will have the newest OS's in mind,
|
That would be the drivers produced by CRAPPY manufacturers.
Good manufacturers will provide legacy support as well.
|that is where I figured the software will either not load or simply would not work.
|
...or you could read the docs/packaging.
If it doesn't *specifically* SAY it supports Win98, count on it NOT supporting it.
...and after your driver package download is decompressed,
the driver for Win9x is a **seperate** file from the NT file.
If that doesn't exist, there's no magic that can make it appear.
A WinNT driver would be no more useful on Win9x
than if the driver in hand was a Mac driver or a Linux driver.
It seems you have ignored BOTH of my links--specifically the phrase "DOS-based".
|"Might" the old USB support on Win98se
|allow me to use a newer wireless USB mouse,
|
Universal Serial Bus is a COMMUNICATIONS protocol.
The USB protocol support in the OS is about **data interchange**.
That, however, is only _one_ end of the deal.
Making sure the device can deal with a **particular** OS
is the responsibility of the manufacturer of the device.
*That* is the first step a device manufacturer has in writing a device driver.
THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEMS ARISE WITH LOUSY VENDORS
WHO ONLY WANT TO SKIM OFF THE CREAM. SIMPLY AVOID THOSE VENDORS.
|just not with every function enabled is the question?
|
Functions are a property of the device driver,
so any bells and whistles are up to the device manufacturer--NOT M$
Again: FROM THE START, A DRIVER HAS TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE OS KERNEL.
I linked to Karl's excellent page on drivers
where he explains that a device driver is a TRANSLATOR
between the language the *device* speaks and the language the *OS* speaks.
The device manufacturer already knows HIS language;
it's his job to learn the OTHER language.
This is where LAZY manufacturers become obvious.
Again, it's up to the device manufacturer to make sure things work.
When they MAKE THE EFFORT to do this,
they tend to PRINT that on the packaging / spec sheet;
IT'S A SELLING POINT.
The ones that don't *list* YOUR OS, likely don't support it.
It's really that simple.
[Reply or follow-up to this message]
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re: Wireless USB mice, which work on 98se?
Monday, April 20, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Posted by Louis
(39 messages posted)
I decided to try using the Logitech V220 USB wireless mouse on my Dell C610's Win98se
OS although the pkg states the mouse is only supported on XP & Vista if you're using
Windows. I immediately ran into the problem of missing files (Lmouhid.vxd among other
files) when the OS tried to install the new hardware. But I recalled that the Logitech
MouseWare 9.7 CD had a Win98 driver directory on it when I used it's drivers on my
Win95 PC to install a Microsoft model 1008 wireless USB/PS2 mouse. So I used that
CD directory's drivers to get the V220 installed. It now worked but only as a two-button
mouse. But if anyone is also using XP or Vista and Win98se on the same PC, you can
use the V220 even though it doesn't *specifically* SAY it supports Win98.
Next I tried using a Microsoft Wireless Notebook Optical Mouse 3000. There are two
"3000" mice, only the one I mentioned says it works on Win98. Of course a problem
occurred when I tried loading the Intellipoint 5.5 & 5.2 software, neither would
load on the PC. Some Web site reviews of the software say that both versions support
Win98 but Micro$oft'$ site only mentions 2K and above so unless they are incorrectly
worded or I need to load some system updates (I only used the 98se CD) or the USB
1.1 port is the issue, I would think Microsoft has the correct info. I'll talk about
the USB issue later.
This time the MouseWare 9.7 drivers couldn't get the mouse to function fully so I
decided to try installing Intellipoint 4.1 software. It's old software & doesn't
support the 3000 but I noticed that it supported an older wireless three-button optical
mouse which was USB/PS2 capable so I chose that mouse to set up the buttons and this
allowed the 3000 to function fully. If you can't get 5.2 or 5.5 to load, try 4.1
Unfortunately I never tried using 4.1 on the V220 to see if it would work before
I returned it.
I wanted to have a spare mouse for the laptop and decided to buy the Kensington 72214
since Kensington says it supports Win98. It's only about 2/3 the volume of the 3000
and has an on/off switch and sleep mode to extend battery life, very small mouse.
Unfortunately the software would not properly work. Tech support was a bit baffled
at first but then asked if the laptop USB was 1.1 or 2. It's 1.1 and they felt this
may have been the problem/issue. Something to keep it in mind if you're thinking
of using a newer USB mouse on an older PC.
Since I wanted to keep the 72214 I decided to try using the Kensington mouse with
the Intellipoint 4.1 software, after all, the Microsoft mice worked with Logitech's
software, I had nothing to lose. Nice surprise, the mouse now worked fully as a three-button
mouse, scrolling and whatever function I wanted to assign to individual buttons.
If you have any problems getting a wireless USB mouse to work on Win98se you might
try using a variety of drivers to see if one of them will allow the mouse to work.
Both the 72214 & 3000 now work properly on a C610 with USB 1.1 using the Intellipoint
4.1 drivers.
On Monday, April 6, 2009 at 1:48 pm, Louis wrote:
>Which of the wireless USB mice have you found to work with Win98se? The newer mice
>are USB 2 and most seem to say that they will only work on 2K-Vista. I assume it's
>due to the software they use to control the extra buttons or the side to side scroll
>or zoom capabilities - which I do not need. eBay should have plenty of older mice
>available should I need to look for such. Just want to know which ones will work
>on 98se as a 3 button mouse before I buy one. Is anyone using the Logitech V220?
[Reply or follow-up to this message]
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re: Wireless USB mice, which work on 98se?
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Posted by Louis
(39 messages posted)
Just a follow up on the Intellipoint software. I was reviewing some of my old notes
and realized there may be an issue with Win98se and the IP 4.1 setup for some of
you. The best route is to download "IP 4.12" from Microsoft, it solves the msi.dll
issue that can prevent your getting the IP 4.1 CD to work. Alternately booting into
Command Prompt via F8 at start up will allow you to then delete the problem dll in
C:\windows\system\msi.dll (or just rename the msi.dll to: backup_msi.dll). When you
now load the IP 4.1 CD it will replace the missing msi.dll and the software will
load properly, use the IP 4.12 it's easier to do. The issue was discussed here http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winme/t1046304041
and on the Net if you Google it. IP 4.12 looks to have a better selection of mice
available.
On Monday, April 20, 2009 at 9:29 pm, Louis wrote:
>I decided to try using the Logitech V220 USB wireless mouse on my Dell C610's Win98se
>OS although the pkg states the mouse is only supported on XP & Vista if you're using
>Windows. I immediately ran into the problem of missing files (Lmouhid.vxd among
other
>files) when the OS tried to install the new hardware. But I recalled that the Logitech
>MouseWare 9.7 CD had a Win98 driver directory on it when I used it's drivers on
my
>Win95 PC to install a Microsoft model 1008 wireless USB/PS2 mouse. So I used that
>CD directory's drivers to get the V220 installed. It now worked but only as a two-button
>mouse. But if anyone is also using XP or Vista and Win98se on the same PC, you can
>use the V220 even though it doesn't *specifically* SAY it supports Win98.
>
>Next I tried using a Microsoft Wireless Notebook Optical Mouse 3000. There are two
>"3000" mice, only the one I mentioned says it works on Win98. Of course a problem
>occurred when I tried loading the Intellipoint 5.5 & 5.2 software, neither would
>load on the PC. Some Web site reviews of the software say that both versions support
>Win98 but Micro$oft'$ site only mentions 2K and above so unless they are incorrectly
>worded or I need to load some system updates (I only used the 98se CD) or the USB
>1.1 port is the issue, I would think Microsoft has the correct info. I'll talk about
>the USB issue later.
>
>This time the MouseWare 9.7 drivers couldn't get the mouse to function fully so
I
>decided to try installing Intellipoint 4.1 software. It's old software & doesn't
>support the 3000 but I noticed that it supported an older wireless three-button
optical
>mouse which was USB/PS2 capable so I chose that mouse to set up the buttons and
this
>allowed the 3000 to function fully. If you can't get 5.2 or 5.5 to load, try 4.1
>Unfortunately I never tried using 4.1 on the V220 to see if it would work before
>I returned it.
>
>I wanted to have a spare mouse for the laptop and decided to buy the Kensington
72214
>since Kensington says it supports Win98. It's only about 2/3 the volume of the 3000
>and has an on/off switch and sleep mode to extend battery life, very small mouse.
>Unfortunately the software would not properly work. Tech support was a bit baffled
>at first but then asked if the laptop USB was 1.1 or 2. It's 1.1 and they felt this
>may have been the problem/issue. Something to keep it in mind if you're thinking
>of using a newer USB mouse on an older PC.
>
>Since I wanted to keep the 72214 I decided to try using the Kensington mouse with
>the Intellipoint 4.1 software, after all, the Microsoft mice worked with Logitech's
>software, I had nothing to lose. Nice surprise, the mouse now worked fully as a
three-button
>mouse, scrolling and whatever function I wanted to assign to individual buttons.
>If you have any problems getting a wireless USB mouse to work on Win98se you might
>try using a variety of drivers to see if one of them will allow the mouse to work.
>Both the 72214 & 3000 now work properly on a C610 with USB 1.1 using the Intellipoint
>4.1 drivers.
>
>
>
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